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Author Topic: Can you name this locomotive?  (Read 1349 times)

Offline antonymous

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Can you name this locomotive?
« on: 27 March, 2015, 12:27:25 AM »
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« Last Edit: 27 March, 2015, 12:29:37 AM by antonymous »
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Offline Cosmos

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Re: Can you name this locomotive?
« Reply #1 on: 27 March, 2015, 01:29:00 AM »
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I believe there's more than one possible answer for this inasmuch as this particular locomotive was not the only one built from the type. One possible answer is "Union of South Africa". If I remember correctly another was "Sir Nigel Gresley". I believe the two are still running and at least one other - I think the name had something to do with the Scottish Highlands.
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Offline antonymous

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Re: Can you name this locomotive?
« Reply #2 on: 27 March, 2015, 06:15:22 AM »
Sorry - completely the wrong class - you are referring to LNER  A4 Gresley Pacifics, of which this is not one .

                                                                 But this is;                   
« Last Edit: 27 March, 2015, 10:03:43 AM by antonymous »
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Offline P-Kasso2

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Re: Can you name this locomotive?
« Reply #3 on: 27 March, 2015, 10:00:22 AM »
I am useless at questions arriving on platform 9 but I still like to get my twopennorth in...


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Offline antonymous

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Re: Can you name this locomotive?
« Reply #4 on: 27 March, 2015, 10:04:45 AM »
I am useless at questions arriving on platform 9 but I still like to get my twopennorth in...



I'll give you thruppence for it!
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Offline seacommander

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Re: Can you name this locomotive?
« Reply #5 on: 27 March, 2015, 04:16:25 PM »
The loco is one of Bulleid's (chief mechanical engineer of the Southern Railway 1937-1948) so called light pacifics. The number is none too clear but the first two digits, 34, confirm it to be a light pacific and the shape of the name plate makes it one of the Battle of Britain class.  I think I can decipher a 7 and possibly a 0 at the end which would make this loco Manston and working on the Swanage preserved railway. The other light pacifics were so called West Countries and named, not surprisingly, after towns and cities in the west country. The larger pacifics of almost identical appearance were of the Merchant Navy class and named after liners. The first MN loco was named Channel Packet and the locos of the whole class were coloquially referred to as 'Packets' by Southern Railway footplatemen.

My long departed grandfather was a driver of the these and many other Southern locos; his all time favourite being Bideford - a West Country 34019.
« Last Edit: 27 March, 2015, 04:27:12 PM by seacommander »

Offline antonymous

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Re: Can you name this locomotive?
« Reply #6 on: 27 March, 2015, 04:53:13 PM »
The loco is one of Bulleid's (chief mechanical engineer of the Southern Railway 1937-1948) so called light pacifics. The number is none too clear but the first two digits, 34, confirm it to be a light pacific and the shape of the name plate makes it one of the Battle of Britain class.  I think I can decipher a 7 and possibly a 0 at the end which would make this loco Manston and working on the Swanage preserved railway. The other light pacifics were so called West Countries and named, not surprisingly, after towns and cities in the west country. The larger pacifics of almost identical appearance were of the Merchant Navy class and named after liners. The first MN loco was named Channel Packet and the locos of the whole class were coloquially referred to as 'Packets' by Southern Railway footplatemen.

My long departed grandfather was a driver of the these and many other Southern locos; his all time favourite being Bideford - a West Country 34019.

Thank you SC, great answer and absolutely spot on. I dont know how you linked my picture to Swanage, [ I think you might have visited my Flickr page?]but yes that's where it was taken in 2013.

I used to watch in awe of these 'spam cans' [another colloquial name due to the shape of the unmodified versions]at Southampton Central  hauling the London - Bournemouth expresses.
The air smoothing cladding was removed from many of the SR Bulleid Light Pacifics because it caused maintenance problems I believe, however Manston was not modded.

Heres proof:
https://youtu.be/Yh5qcZeP6Aw

BTW I guess it's a typo but MN Class Names are all Shipping Lines - not liners.
« Last Edit: 27 March, 2015, 05:28:23 PM by antonymous »
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Offline seacommander

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Re: Can you name this locomotive?
« Reply #7 on: 27 March, 2015, 05:33:43 PM »
Together with removing the air smoothing - a term I think Bulleid conjured up because he did not regard it as full streamlining - the original steam operated valve linkage was removed together with the valve gear and replaced with the more common walschaerts valve gear. Because the original gear was enclosed in a prone to leakage oil bath, fires in the oil soaked boiler cladding were not uncommon. Also the original gear was prone to slippage and could suddenly put the wheels into reverse causing all manner of problems such as bent connecting rods. I don't know whether my father still has it, but my grandad in common with many drivers of unmodified Bulleid pacifics whittled a wooden peg which could be used to secure the reversing lever in the desired position.

Offline antonymous

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Re: Can you name this locomotive?
« Reply #8 on: 27 March, 2015, 05:46:59 PM »
Together with removing the air smoothing - a term I think Bulleid conjured up because he did not regard it as full streamlining - the original steam operated valve linkage was removed together with the valve gear and replaced with the more common walschaerts valve gear. Because the original gear was enclosed in a prone to leakage oil bath, fires in the oil soaked boiler cladding were not uncommon. Also the original gear was prone to slippage and could suddenly put the wheels into reverse causing all manner of problems such as bent connecting rods. I don't know whether my father still has it, but my grandad in common with many drivers of unmodified Bulleid pacifics whittled a wooden peg which could be used to secure the reversing lever in the desired position.

Another problem with the Bulleids was their light weight, they were fine on the levels across the Southern Region, but put them on a decent incline and they struggled - here's Battle of Britain  'Tangmere'  struggling to get up Shap Fell  the longest steepest incline imaginable.
https://youtu.be/NWhl4uOzowM
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Offline seacommander

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Re: Can you name this locomotive?
« Reply #9 on: 27 March, 2015, 09:22:26 PM »


[/quote]
Another problem with the Bulleids was their light weight, they were fine on the levels across the Southern Region, but put them on a decent incline and they struggled
https://youtu.be/NWhl4uOzowM


[/quote]
I dug out one of my books on Bulleid's pacifics and read the chapter on the interchange trials that took place in 1948. Without exception the pacifics performed admirably with Belgian Marine knocking 6.5 mins off the the scheduled timing for the journey between Penrith and Shap summit.

In the Highlands of Scotland Yeovil made such a get away from Blair Atholl that it left the banking engine behind and had to wait at Straun for it to catch up and make up steam!! On the run from Straun to Dalnaspidal a gradient of 1 in 70 is encountered and yet 11.5 mins was knocked off the 31 minutes allowed by the timetable.

I like the youtube video Ant. My comment is that it seems quite likely that the driver did not have one of the magic pegs and what we witness is an example of the steam reverser going out of control and opening the valve cut off to or nearly 100%. Even on steep gradients in the hands of an experienced driver about 25% cut off and full regulator would be satisfactory. Had a re-built Bulleid been used with walschaerts valve gear and screw reverser the same thing would not have happened.

Offline antonymous

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Re: Can you name this locomotive?
« Reply #10 on: 28 March, 2015, 07:21:55 AM »


I dug out one of my books on Bulleid's pacifics and read the chapter on the interchange trials that took place in 1948. Without exception the pacifics performed admirably with Belgian Marine knocking 6.5 mins off the the scheduled timing for the journey between Penrith and Shap summit.

In the Highlands of Scotland Yeovil made such a get away from Blair Atholl that it left the banking engine behind and had to wait at Straun for it to catch up and make up steam!! On the run from Straun to Dalnaspidal a gradient of 1 in 70 is encountered and yet 11.5 mins was knocked off the 31 minutes allowed by the timetable.

I like the youtube video Ant. My comment is that it seems quite likely that the driver did not have one of the magic pegs and what we witness is an example of the steam reverser going out of control and opening the valve cut off to or nearly 100%. Even on steep gradients in the hands of an experienced driver about 25% cut off and full regulator would be satisfactory. Had a re-built Bulleid been used with walschaerts valve gear and screw reverser the same thing would not have happened.

I understood the problem to be wheel slip in that wonderful video, this would be as a result of loss of traction due to lack of weight on the driving wheels??

Those early test results you quote are impressive, they tie in with my total admiration for the Bulleids - cheers man have a great week-end.
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Offline seacommander

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Re: Can you name this locomotive?
« Reply #11 on: 28 March, 2015, 09:37:58 PM »


I understood the problem to be wheel slip in that wonderful video, this would be as a result of loss of traction due to lack of weight on the driving wheels??



I hope you have a good weekend too Ant.

Quite correct about slippage due to lack of traction but so it would be with any loco if full power was suddenly applied to the driving wheels as I suspect inadvertently happened in this example. Nevertheless, traction was quickly recovered.