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Author Topic: Naked ladies! Who started this mania for fat naked women in art?  (Read 3773 times)

Offline P-Kasso2

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I've got nothing against a bit if naked female flesh here and there...but I can't really understand why nudes suddenly burst onto the scene. They are everywhere now. Whole galleries full of them. Art schools full of people still painting nudes.

I mean, here in the West, nudity has tended to be covered up...all very puritan I'm sure.

But, in art, the absolute reverse is true.

Miles of nudes, oil paintings of various half naked dollies flashing their bits throughout the centuries and clogging up our top galleries.

So who first started this craze for the female flesh and and where and when and why?
« Last Edit: 25 February, 2015, 09:51:54 PM by P-Kasso2 »
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Offline siasl

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Re: Naked ladies! Who started this mania for fat naked women in art?
« Reply #1 on: 25 February, 2015, 04:00:40 PM »
I believe it may have been Adam who started the whole fascination with flesh of the opposite sex thing
 lmao

Offline antonymous

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Re: Naked ladies! Who started this mania for fat naked women in art?
« Reply #2 on: 25 February, 2015, 05:28:32 PM »
I believe it may have been Adam who started the whole fascination with flesh of the opposite sex thing
 lmao

Ah! but could he paint? Hardly likely - paint and brushes hadnt been invented yet.

probably the answer to the qustion is here;

                                                               




                                                   " Women entertainers perform at a celebration in Ancient Egypt; the dancers are naked and the musician wears a typical pleated garment as well as the cone of perfumed fat on top of her wig that melts slowly to emit its precious odors; both groups wear extensive jewelry, wigs, and cosmetics; neither wear shoes - Thebes tomb c. 1400 B.C."
« Last Edit: 25 February, 2015, 05:33:26 PM by antonymous »
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Offline P-Kasso2

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Re: Naked ladies! Who started this mania for fat naked women in art?
« Reply #3 on: 25 February, 2015, 10:22:17 PM »
I believe it may have been Adam who started the whole fascination with flesh of the opposite sex thing
 lmao

Ah! but could he paint? Hardly likely - paint and brushes hadnt been invented yet.

probably the answer to the qustion is here;

                                                               

                                                   " Women entertainers perform at a celebration in Ancient Egypt; the dancers are naked and the musician wears a typical pleated garment as well as the cone of perfumed fat on top of her wig that melts slowly to emit its precious odors; both groups wear extensive jewelry, wigs, and cosmetics; neither wear shoes - Thebes tomb c. 1400 B.C."

I agree Ant, but there is one reservation I have.

And that is that Egypt is in Africa and people tended to wander round naked...the climate helped.

So naked depictions of women in ancient Egyptian art aren't nudes...they are reportage, accurate depictions of reality.

The nude in Western art is not a depiction of reality but a fantasy...and it is this aspect of the mania for nudes in Western art that I am trying to understand.

Where and when did artists suddenly think that painting ladies lounging nakedly in landscapes and on sofas etc first kick off?

I can understand artists like Reubens turning to classical mythology as a good source for somehow justifiable hordes of fat nude ladies parading across the walls of stately homes and now art galleries.

Anyone who has ever tried painting nudes will soon tell you that the obsession with painting nudes is not because painting naked flesh is easier that painting clothes on people. Quite the reverse.

Then fast forward to painters such as Lucien Freud...what disappears if, instead of his acclaimed nudes, the women were in ordinary street clothes?

Painting, to me, often seems a bit of an easy option almost as if thousands of artist down the centuries have said to themselves "I know, I'll paint nude ladies because that is an accepted 'real art' option."

I am beginning to see it as a cop out cliché.

But then, when you look at the incredible heights Michelangelo took sculpture of the nude (both male and female) then the onlooker and commissioners of nudes must have gone through, or along with, a tide of transformation in the levels of acceptance of what constitutes art...solemn religious rt somewhere along the line gave way to paintings of dollies without their togs on...yet it was elevated far above titillation and called art.

Is looking at nudes in art galleries just pervy voyeurism made acceptable?

Looking back to the earliest depictions of oil-painted nudes I can think of in a Western world where the actual norm was for women to go about swaddled in clothes, the paintings of Lucas Cranach spring to mind...but Cranach was painting religious icons of Adam and Eve and the Fall from Grace etc where nudity was only a symbol of innocence rather than coquettishness or voluptuousness. And he can probably be further excused because his early paintings of Adam and Eve depict reality in the sense that way back at the time of Creation people didn't wear clothes.

So I am wondering who was the first artists to start seeing nude ladies as a worthy subject of 'art' rather than 'reportage' or 'religious symbolism? Where did the ball start rolling?






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imfeduptoo

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Re: Naked ladies! Who started this mania for fat naked women in art?
« Reply #4 on: 26 February, 2015, 02:19:09 PM »
I can't be completely sure that The Nude Maya was the first painting of a nude woman painted for Art's sake but I think it could be a contender,

There are many paintings of nudes from earlier times, as you know, but they seem to have been painted for other reasons.
For instance,the explicit temple sculptures of tenth-century India - these being in a temple is difficult to know for what reason they were painted.

"One of the defining characteristics of the modern era in art is the blurring of the line between the naked and the nude. This likely first occurred with the painting The Nude Maya (1797) by Goya,

The Greek goddesses were initially sculpted with drapery rather than nude. The first free-standing, life-sized sculpture of an entirely nude woman was the Aphrodite of Cnidus created ca. 360–340 BCE by Praxiteles.[31] The female nude became much more common in the later Hellenistic period.

Rarely seen during the Middle Ages, the female nude reappeared in Italy in the 15th century. Subsequently, eroticism became more emphatic in paintings such as Giorgione's Sleeping Venus (ca. 1510), which situated the reclining nude in an idyllic landscape, and Titian's Danaë series (ca. 1553–1556). These works inspired countless reclining female nudes for centuries afterwards.[31] The annual glut of paintings of idealized nude women in the 19th-century Paris Salon was satirized by Honoré Daumier in an 1864 lithograph."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nude_(art)

I really don't know if this has gone anywhere towards answering your question but hopefully it's a start.

Offline P-Kasso2

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Re: Naked ladies! Who started this mania for fat naked women in art?
« Reply #5 on: 26 February, 2015, 10:27:57 PM »
I really don't know if this has gone anywhere towards answering your question but hopefully it's a start.

Yes, Mrs Too, it nicely nails the probable start of the 'nude in Art for art's sake' (or, more likely, for titillation's sake) to the 1500's which is pretty much what I'd suspected. So I am now feeling as chuffed as the most insufferable clever clogs.

And, as for your link to the Wiki article, it is a remarkable clear and (surprise, surprise) readable bit of info for Wiki.

Maybe I should have checked in with Wiki first instead of just firing off my question to I.A. ?

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imfeduptoo

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Re: Naked ladies! Who started this mania for fat naked women in art?
« Reply #6 on: 26 February, 2015, 10:40:25 PM »
I really don't know if this has gone anywhere towards answering your question but hopefully it's a start.

Yes, Mrs Too, it nicely nails the probable start of the 'nude in Art for art's sake' (or, more likely, for titillation's sake) to the 1500's which is pretty much what I'd suspected. So I am now feeling as chuffed as the most insufferable clever clogs.

And, as for your link to the Wiki article, it is a remarkable clear and (surprise, surprise) readable bit of info for Wiki.

Maybe I should have checked in with Wiki first instead of just firing off my question to I.A. ?

Please don't, P-K, you ask really good questions.

Offline Cosmos

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Re: Naked ladies! Who started this mania for fat naked women in art?
« Reply #7 on: 15 March, 2015, 07:20:36 AM »
I don't know that there's a right answer to this question since we are still exploring the history of humanity. Saying that I obviously have something in mind. Care to take a look at the Venus of Willendorf?




This figurine apparently dates from around 26 000 BCE. According to this website the origins go further back than that http://www.visual-arts-cork.com/prehistoric/venus-of-willendorf.htm

Unfortunately I must bring up the possibility that this was not art but voodoo.  ;D
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Offline P-Kasso2

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Re: Naked ladies! Who started this mania for fat naked women in art?
« Reply #8 on: 15 March, 2015, 10:59:07 AM »
I don't know that there's a right answer to this question since we are still exploring the history of humanity. Saying that I obviously have something in mind. Care to take a look at the Venus of Willendorf?




This figurine apparently dates from around 26 000 BCE. According to this website the origins go further back than that http://www.visual-arts-cork.com/prehistoric/venus-of-willendorf.htm

Unfortunately I must bring up the possibility that this was not art but voodoo.  ;D

Ah Cosmos...each to his own...I think there are two types of people who admire naked ladies in art.

There are those, like me, who prefer their Firm Botticellis and there those who far prefer Rubens Knee Knockers.

I think you may have invented a third category...but am at a loss to know what to call it.
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Offline Cosmos

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Re: Naked ladies! Who started this mania for fat naked women in art?
« Reply #9 on: 15 March, 2015, 12:57:18 PM »
I don't know that there's a right answer to this question since we are still exploring the history of humanity. Saying that I obviously have something in mind. Care to take a look at the Venus of Willendorf?




This figurine apparently dates from around 26 000 BCE. According to this website the origins go further back than that http://www.visual-arts-cork.com/prehistoric/venus-of-willendorf.htm

Unfortunately I must bring up the possibility that this was not art but voodoo.  ;D

Ah Cosmos...each to his own...I think there are two types of people who admire naked ladies in art.

There are those, like me, who prefer their Firm Botticellis and there those who far prefer Rubens Knee Knockers.

I think you may have invented a third category...but am at a loss to know what to call it.

Your third category, I have on good authority, should be called 'burqa wearers'.
Bare barbarer barberer rabarbera bra .

Offline P-Kasso2

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Re: Naked ladies! Who started this mania for fat naked women in art?
« Reply #10 on: 16 March, 2015, 05:31:32 AM »

Your third category, I have on good authority, should be called 'burqa wearers'.

Burqa Babes?





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