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Author Topic: Sentence or sentance?  (Read 76888 times)

Offline antonymous

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Re: Sentence or sentance?
« Reply #30 on: 24 November, 2015, 07:05:16 AM »
A for legal spelling

It is now an archaic obsolete word.
Archaic words

These words are no longer in everyday use or have lost a particular meaning in current usage but are sometimes used to impart an old-fashioned flavour to historical novels, for example, or in standard conversation or writing just for a humorous effect. Some, such as hotchpotch, reveal the origin of their current meaning, while others reveal the origin of a different modern word, as with gentle, the sense of which is preserved in gentleman. Some, such as learn and let, now mean the opposite of their former use." http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/words/archaic-words

SENTANCE  does not even make it onto a comprehensive list of such words on that website;

eg;

grimalkin       a cat
gudgeon           a credulous person
gyve                   a fetter or shackle
habiliment   clothing
halt                    lame

BTW:  I live a stone's throw away from the publishers of the commonly acknowledged most complete English dictionary, the Oxford University Press - and for several years played in their lawn bowls team.
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Offline P-Kasso2

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Re: Sentence or sentance?
« Reply #31 on: 24 November, 2015, 12:00:05 PM »
I think Ant raises a very good point that archaic words can and do still have a life in legalistic language but I want to raise a different point.

By chance, I bumped into a guy called Martin Sentance, (with an 'a').

He said that he was forever getting letters mis-spelling his name as Sentence (with an 'e') and it peeved him because Sentance is a true and accurate spelling because, historically, 'Sentance' was a corruption of the spelling of the place name of a village called St Anne's.

Say 'St Anne's' quickly and you'll soon end up with Sentance.

St Anne's was apparently the long-disappeared village where his family originated from in the middle ages, somewhere in Lincolnshire.

He says that even to this day there are still hundreds and possibly thousands of people still called Sentance in that part of the world.

He wouldn't spell it any other way.

"I live in hope"

Offline antonymous

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Re: Sentence or sentance?
« Reply #32 on: 24 November, 2015, 07:45:58 PM »
Place names and surnames are a totally different kettle of fish. (It was common practice in days of yore for families to be identified by use of the name of the hamlet where they lived.)

It was also common for people to  spell words  in many different ways due to phonetic variations.

Although there is apparently large numbers of people , english teachers included, who cannot spell correctly, but SENTANCE as a grammatical noun is not even considered archaic by the OUP, it just does'nt even  make their comprehensive list of such words.

So I think that must be the final word on this subject - there isnt any higher authority than the Full Oxford dictionary.

St Annes can slumber on, and Martin Sentance should have come to terms with the misspelling of his surname by now.
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Offline P-Kasso2

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Re: Sentence or sentance?
« Reply #33 on: 25 November, 2015, 07:08:24 AM »
Place names and surnames are a totally different kettle of fish. (It was common practice in days of yore for families to be identified by use of the name of the hamlet where they lived.)

It was also common for people to  spell words  in many different ways due to phonetic variations.

Although there is apparently large numbers of people , English teachers included, who cannot spell correctly, but SENTANCE as a grammatical noun is not even considered archaic by the OUP, it just doesn't even  make their comprehensive list of such words.

So I think that must be the final word on this subject - there isn't any higher authority than the Full Oxford dictionary.

St Anne's can slumber on, and Martin Sentance should have come to terms with the misspelling of his surname by now.

Absolutely right, Ant. But into the festering stew-pot of the English language as it developed we must also throw some pretty weird and ever-changing ways of spelling words while English slowly settled down into the language and spelling we consider 'right' today.

People in the past weren't slipshod or lousy spellers, it was just spelling itself that was in flux and varied from region to region and probably from day to day. Nothing was fixed.

Just how easy-going the people were about spelling in the past can be seen by the fact that even the great Shakespeare didn't have a constant or set way of spelling his own name!

Going back to the discussion of the two ways to spell 'sentance' or 'sentence', below are just a  few of the choice ways you could spell the word 'Shakespeare' and still be perfectly 'correct''...

Shakespeare             
Shakespere             
Shakespear             
Shakspeare             
Shackspeare             
Shakspere               
Shackespeare             
Shackspere               
Shackespere             
Shaxspere               
Shexpere                 
Shakspe~                 
Shaxpere                 
Shagspere               
Shaksper               
Shaxpeare               
Shaxper                 
Shake-speare             
Shakespe   
Shakp

These examples I have copied over from a specialist Shakespeare site
which has to be one of the most detailed and most densely information-packed sites I have ever tried to plough my weary way through. But they do know everything there is to know about  spelling as a moveable feast in the past.

I've always argued that our language is still moving on merrily and steadily changing and that is a very good and a very natural thing. Even as we speak, English spelling is changing - especially with the slews of new Internet-inspired words and spellings (such as using the infamous spelling of 'program' for 'programme' etc becoming almost accepted interchangeable spellings.

Anyway, if anyone has a day or three to spend reading the Shaxpere website in its full impenetrable glory, here it is...

http://shakespeareauthorship.com/name1.html
« Last Edit: 25 November, 2015, 07:11:26 AM by P-Kasso2 »
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Offline antonymous

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Re: Sentence or sentance?
« Reply #34 on: 25 November, 2015, 08:30:55 AM »
 I agree entirely, the variations of spelling were not due simply to ignorance  - (and in terms of the English language / grammar there was quite a lot, and there still is!) but phonetic variations and whimsical attitudes account for most of these archaic/obsolete spellings.

As a footnote; I am an avid Scrabble player, as I believe you know, but some of the valid words that crop up make me cringe, and some times can be very discouraging, I once lost a game, in which I had a comfortable lead as the last letters were being  dished out because my opponent played a 85 point bonus word --  HRYVNIA      trhr       !!

If you dont already know - thats the Ukrainian unit of currency!
 wve
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Offline P-Kasso2

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Re: Sentence or sentance?
« Reply #35 on: 26 November, 2015, 08:39:11 AM »
I agree entirely, the variations of spelling were not due simply to ignorance  - (and in terms of the English language / grammar there was quite a lot, and there still is!) but phonetic variations and whimsical attitudes account for most of these archaic/obsolete spellings.
As a footnote; I am an avid Scrabble player, as I believe you know, but some of the valid words that crop up make me cringe, and some times can be very discouraging, I once lost a game, in which I had a comfortable lead as the last letters were being  dished out because my opponent played a 85 point bonus word --  HRYVNIA      trhr       !!


If you don't already know - that's the Ukrainian unit of currency!




Ant, what a great word 'Hryvnia' is! Here are a few of my favourite funky weird words you might like to use in annihilating  your opponents at Scrabble. They're all real words but I don't know if they're all in the Chambers or Collins Dictionary (or whatever dictionary they have to be in under competition rules). But feel free to use them....

cabotage – coastal navigation...also the sovereign right of a country to control the air traffic within its border.

firman – A decree or mandate issued by the sovereign in Turkey and a few other Oriental countries.

gabelle – a tax on salt. George Osborne hasn't got round to this one. Yet.

halfpace – a platform of a staircase where the second flight of stairs doubles back on itself in the opposite direction to the lower flight.

impignorate – to pawn or mortgage something.

tittynope – a small quantity of something left over.

ulotrichous – having woolly or crispy hair.


And last but definitely not least....xertz! – to scoff food or gulp something down quickly and greedily.

How many points for a quick xertz?

« Last Edit: 26 November, 2015, 08:50:46 AM by P-Kasso2 »
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Hilary Stanton

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Re: Sentence or sentance?
« Reply #36 on: 06 January, 2016, 10:50:47 AM »
I recently saw the spelling of 'prison sentence' and had to google the correct spelling as was confused.
Am 60 and attended grammar school in UK.
We were taught the difference between sentence and sentance. I have all my old school books in attic but not able at moment to get up there to find the proof.....
Instead I phoned several old friends of my age group from a variety of schools in various counties and they confirmed the same that they were taught two spellings..

Very Odd Indeed.

Hilary  :D

daveyo

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Re: Sentence or sentance?
« Reply #37 on: 09 January, 2016, 10:04:18 AM »
Hi went to Grammar School  northern England ...we were taught two spellings with different meanings .Very surprised or suprised the dictionaries dont give the "a" version

Jane

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Re: Sentence or sentance?
« Reply #38 on: 29 January, 2016, 12:45:37 AM »
This seems to be a common theme. I'm 53, attended grammar school in Leicester, UK and was taught the two different spellings and definitions. I was doing a Google search after seeing it "misspelt" (just to satisfy myself that I was correct) and wound up here instead.

Were so many of our generation's teachers wrong? Was this a common usage that somehow never made it into the dictionaries and has since died out? Was this a conspiracy to misinform the indigenous children so that spies could be easily identified by their ability to spell "sentence" correctly?  :o (Okay, maybe that was a bit too far!) Would love to get to the root of this. We didn't all imagine it I'm sure.

Offline P-Kasso2

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Re: Sentence or sentance?
« Reply #39 on: 30 January, 2016, 12:22:22 PM »
While never doubting the people who have posted that they were taught 50 odd years ago in English schools both 'sentence' and 'sentance' I can only say that in my school in London we only ever got 'sentence'. Full stop. No confusion.

But I am totally convinced that also having the word 'sentance' in the English language would enrich the language no end and, as another very important benefit, would confuse and infuriate all those bliddy Johnny Foreigners even more! whisl
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Glitch

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Lol
« Reply #40 on: 08 March, 2016, 07:36:35 AM »
Well, looks like im going to have to rewrite my entire spelling book... BngHd BngHd BngHd

richT

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Re: Sentence or sentance?
« Reply #41 on: 30 March, 2016, 11:56:59 AM »
Are you sure this isn't just the Mandela Effect you are experiencing?
I also remembered there being a difference for the legal 'Sentance'.
;)

imfeduptoo

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Re: Sentence or sentance?
« Reply #42 on: 30 March, 2016, 07:44:48 PM »
Well, I've just been browsing the British Newspaper Archives and found these instances where 'sentance' was used.
There were a couple of articles where it was spelled with an 'e'.

At least I know now that my memory hadn't played tricks on me and that at one time 'sentence' and 'sentance' existed.
I can't imagine why now it seems as though it never did.

"PAY OR PRISON “... Al>ril for arrears He was then committed to prison for two months, the sentance suspended on payment £1 a week off the arrears The ... ”

FOR FIRE-SIDE TRAVELLERS “... villagers, men, women, and children, were brought in, and the venerable sheik, his stalwart son, and the boy culprit, were sentanced to ... ”

 PIMXTON MINERS 6£NT TO PRISON- “... PIMXTON MINERS 6£NT TO PRISON- Serious Dereliction of Duty. Heavy sentance«. At All ret on on Wednesday, Pinxtou Coal Co. summoned two ... ”

THE PRISONERS UNDER SENTENCE OF DEATH, The two young men, Joaeph Stonestreet and Joaaph Drink water, who were .. “... awaiting the carrying out of their sentanc*e. The day of execution has been fixed by the sheriffs for Monday, the llthinst. The ... ”

 http://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/

Offline antonymous

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Re: Sentence or sentance?
« Reply #43 on: 31 March, 2016, 07:06:22 AM »
From the arbiters of the English language :

"sentance is a common misspelling of sentence"
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/spellcheck/english/?q=sentance

So all the previous contributors who went to , one must assume, second rate grammar schools with dodgy english departments should be thankful to those of us who went to the better class establishments for maintaining the standards of spelling in IA. FPlm
« Last Edit: 31 March, 2016, 07:26:59 AM by antonymous »
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Offline P-Kasso2

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Re: Sentence or sentance?
« Reply #44 on: 02 April, 2016, 10:03:47 AM »
From the arbiters of the English language :

"sentance is a common misspelling of sentence"
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/spellcheck/english/?q=sentance

So all the previous contributors who went to , one must assume, second rate grammar schools with dodgy english departments should be thankful to those of us who went to the better class establishments for maintaining the standards of spelling in IA. FPlm

Well said! Best answer in this debate by some distence.
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