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Author Topic: What's the difference between a claymore and a broadsword?  (Read 7729 times)

Offline P-Kasso2

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What's the difference between a claymore and a broadsword?
« on: 07 December, 2012, 08:32:50 PM »
Sitting here chatting about Scotland etc and thought I'd key in this question because none of us knows the answer.

Lots of theories...all different....but we have to get back to talking about accents and tartans along the west coast now.

Any ideas?
"I live in hope"

Offline P-Kasso2

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Re: What's the difference between a claymore and a broadsword?
« Reply #1 on: 04 April, 2014, 07:29:41 AM »
It's lucky I am a patient bloke. In 2012 this question was posted.

All of 2013 went by with not an answer. Not a peep.

Now, my question has hurtled into its third record-breaking year on the books unanswered.

It even starred in the newsletter. It has been looked at 265 times.

265 times but still no answer!

Such a prolonged silence poses another couple of questions or four...

1   What is the difference between a claymore and a broadsword?

2   Isn't there anyone out there in IA-ville who knows a bit about weaponry?

3   Or are IA-ers simply far too pacifistic and cuddly to answer a cutting edge question with a military connotation?

4   Could it be that there is simply absolutely no way of finding out what the difference between a claymore and a broad sword is? I bet you'd know the difference if one hit you.

I have looked (admittedly a bit half-heartedly) on the Net and can't find any answer...can any one else turn up trumps? Over to you.
"I live in hope"

Offline antonymous

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Re: What's the difference between a claymore and a broadsword?
« Reply #2 on: 04 April, 2014, 08:56:40 AM »
You have shamed me into a situation where I shall have to challenge you to a duel -Sir. Choose your weapon.
These are both broadswords - LH is a claymore ie scottish version.
   
claymore is an anglicisation of the Gaelic claidheamh ṃr "great sword", first attested in 1772 (as Cly-more) with the gloss "great two-handed sword".[2] The sense "basket-hilted sword" is contemporaneous, attested in 1773 as "The broad-sword now used [...] called the Claymore.
 Wiki

Basically a 'broadsword' is a 'longsword' with a flat blade with two cutting edges, the term is used to distinguish it from  the long thin, pointed rapier.
« Last Edit: 04 April, 2014, 10:29:23 AM by antonymous »
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Offline P-Kasso2

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Re: What's the difference between a claymore and a broadsword?
« Reply #3 on: 04 April, 2014, 10:55:49 AM »
You have shamed me into a situation where I shall have to challenge you to a duel -Sir. Choose your weapon.
These are both broadswords - LH is a claymore ie scottish version.
 

Ah, thank you Ant.
It is just as I was beginning to suspect...the swords
are the same thing. Canny Scots.

Now, to the small matter of you challenging me to a duel...I accept and
I choose the Claymore as my weapon...The Claymore M18A1 to be exact.



Kerboom at ten paces!
« Last Edit: 04 April, 2014, 11:02:01 AM by P-Kasso2 »
"I live in hope"

Offline antonymous

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Re: What's the difference between a claymore and a broadsword?
« Reply #4 on: 04 April, 2014, 11:16:41 AM »

Now, to the small matter of you challenging me to a duel...I accept and
I choose the Claymore as my weapon...The Claymore M18A1 to be exact.



Kerboom at ten paces!

 Bang head As I suspected P-K - you are a font loving, barolo swigging, blackguard  and mountebank sir!

I await your deployment with great delight;
Joy
« Last Edit: 04 April, 2014, 11:20:08 AM by antonymous »
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Offline P-Kasso2

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Re: What's the difference between a claymore and a broadsword?
« Reply #5 on: 04 April, 2014, 11:46:50 AM »

 Bang head As I suspected P-K - you are a font loving, barolo swigging, blackguard  and mountebank sir!

I await your deployment with great delight;
Joy

I see your measly tank and raise you one tank killer! Be warned, I have three more in my garage.

"I live in hope"

Offline P-Kasso2

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Re: What's the difference between a claymore and a broadsword?
« Reply #6 on: 04 April, 2014, 12:34:13 PM »
It's gone very quiet on the western front!
"I live in hope"

Offline antonymous

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Re: What's the difference between a claymore and a broadsword?
« Reply #7 on: 04 April, 2014, 12:44:40 PM »


I see your measly tank and raise you one tank killer! Be warned, I have three more in my garage.



We're waiting for you sir!                             
“Sometimes the questions are complicated and the answers are simple. Sometimes it'svice versa"

Offline P-Kasso2

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Re: What's the difference between a claymore and a broadsword?
« Reply #8 on: 04 April, 2014, 07:45:45 PM »

We're waiting for you sir!                             



Bye bye! wve
"I live in hope"

Kyle Flanagan

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Re: What's the difference between a claymore and a broadsword?
« Reply #9 on: 21 May, 2017, 04:35:09 AM »
As a person who has studied medieval and renaissance weaponry for 5+ years, as well as who has practiced historical fencing for about 2 years, I actually dispute the answer given here already. Wikipedia is not a good source for sword terminology at all.

To be fair however, considering that sword terminology throughout history has been so inconsistent for so long, most of the mistakes commonly made are understandable. It has only been relatively recently that archaeologists and weapon enthusiasts have begun trying to definitively categorize swords in a way that is consistent.

Historically, the term Broadsword comes from a form of sword that was popular in Scotland during the same period that rapiers were popular in France and Spain (around the 1500s). It was so called because it was shorter and broader than the Rapier. So as far as that goes, what Antonymous said was correct. However, this is not just any Scottish sword. It is a very specific type of Scottish sword that that has a basket hilt and a specific blade type.

It looks like so.


The two swords shown by Antonymous are not at all broadswords. The left is the Albion Claymore (a very high quality reproduction) and the right looks like a much lower quality production of a Claymore as well, though it's hard to tell exactly the size based on the image alone.

Claymores are specifically the Scottish Longsword. A longsword being a primarily two-handed sword (as opposed to the Broadsword which is one handed) and have at minimum a basic crossguard (though later period can have ring guards as well), and double edged (straight). The useage of the longsword is described by the Dobringer manuals, Fiore dei Liberi's Armizare, and several other manuals of the time. They are earlier designs than either rapiers or broadswords (which were the contemporaries of rapiers) but were used primarily as a side-arm in war and as a dueling weapon in Germany at the same time as the rapier and broadsword.

This is a longsword



What most people assume is a broadsword is either a longsword (if the two-handed version) or the Arming Sword (the one-handed version). And as I said, most sword terminology is very modern and not historical at all. 90% of the time swords were just called "swords" in the period that they were used with no distinction. However, broadsword is one of the rare instances where the word IS historical, and as such it is very easy to type it to a specific sword template. The basket-hilted scottish broadsword is the broadsword.

Now, Claymore is a lot more ambiguous, and historically could refer to all sorts of things. But for the sake of having an easy to understand categorization system, the term is only used in a modern sense to describe the Scottish two-handed cruciform swords.

Offline siasl

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Re: What's the difference between a claymore and a broadsword?
« Reply #10 on: 24 May, 2017, 07:46:27 PM »
 Gd_pst
What a wonderful answer, thank you

Offline P-Kasso2

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Re: What's the difference between a claymore and a broadsword?
« Reply #11 on: 27 May, 2017, 09:37:58 PM »
And I second that, Siasl. Thank you Kyle Flanagan for such a full answer! Gd_pst Gd_pst
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Offline philpott

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Re: What's the difference between a claymore and a broadsword?
« Reply #12 on: 09 May, 2018, 06:19:37 PM »
there you go, you learn something new everyday, there I thought  claymores  exploded,
new forum, new member so start with a BANG !!      lmao
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