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Author Topic: How did Britain get hold of its' first Enigma machine?  (Read 3100 times)

Offline siasl

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How did Britain get hold of its' first Enigma machine?
« on: 23 March, 2012, 01:17:59 PM »
.

Offline antonymous

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Re: How did Britain get hold of its' first Enigma machine?
« Reply #1 on: 23 March, 2012, 02:28:50 PM »
The first military ENIGMA machine that the British codebreakers obtained was from the Polish Cipher Bureau, who provided it to the British when Poland fell to the Germans in September 1939). The Polish Enigma duplicate worked - they had successfully decrypted a large portion of Enigma traffic since December 1932 (the German military started using the system in 1928.) The Polish shared their system with the British and French in mid 1939.
This was , however, a 4 wheel machine, (rotors marked  I, II,III, AND IV)and the German Wehrmacht had started using a 5 wheel machine( + rotor V) in December 1938. the German navy however heightened the security of their own cryptography by  using an 8 wheel machine ( with additional rotors VI,VII, and VIII) .
In February 1940 the first of this later Enigma material  consisting of  rotors VI and VII, the wiring of which was at that time unknown, were captured from the crew of U-33 by the Royal Navy.
Then on  7 May 1941, the Royal Navy captured a German weather ship, together with complete cipher equipment and codes. They did it again shortly afterwards when two days later U-boat U-110 was captured.
The very first ENIGMA machine the British obtained was a commercial (3 rotor) version which was purchased through normal channels in 1927 which, whilst it enabled the codebreakers to understand its workings, was of no use when war broke out, for the reasons outlined above.
« Last Edit: 23 March, 2012, 03:10:10 PM by antonymous »
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Offline siasl

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Re: How did Britain get hold of its' first Enigma machine?
« Reply #2 on: 23 March, 2012, 02:30:31 PM »
According to a news article today, you are wrong.  whisl

Offline P-Kasso2

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Re: How did Britain get hold of its' first Enigma machine?
« Reply #3 on: 23 March, 2012, 05:43:21 PM »


I always understood that the first Enigma machine (or at least it was the daily code books plus a few other working bits and pieces) to fall into Allied hands was obtained when the Royal Navy (tara!) captured a Geman U-Boat.

More than that I am afraid I am not at liberty to say.
« Last Edit: 23 March, 2012, 05:49:17 PM by P-Kasso2 »

Offline antonymous

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Re: How did Britain get hold of its' first Enigma machine?
« Reply #4 on: 23 March, 2012, 05:49:06 PM »
I always understood that the first Enigma machine (or at least it daily code books) to fall into Allied hands was obtained when the Navy captured a Geman U-Boat.

More than that I am not at liberty to say.

I think I covered that in my post above, but it wasnt the first "Then on  7 May 1941, the Royal Navy captured a German weather ship, together with complete cipher equipment and codes They did it again shortly afterwards when two days later U-boat U-110 was captured.
« Last Edit: 23 March, 2012, 05:54:27 PM by antonymous »
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Offline P-Kasso2

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Re: How did Britain get hold of its' first Enigma machine?
« Reply #5 on: 23 March, 2012, 05:53:14 PM »
Es tut mir leid ich weiß nicht was ich rede, mein Kapitan. Vielleicht ist es am besten, Seacommander zu fragen.

Offline siasl

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Re: How did Britain get hold of its' first Enigma machine?
« Reply #6 on: 23 March, 2012, 06:00:59 PM »
Neither of you are correct as to how britain got its' first Enigma device

Offline P-Kasso2

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Re: How did Britain get hold of its' first Enigma machine?
« Reply #7 on: 23 March, 2012, 06:26:04 PM »
Rats!


Offline antonymous

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Re: How did Britain get hold of its' first Enigma machine?
« Reply #8 on: 23 March, 2012, 06:26:15 PM »
From my earlier post:
"The very first ENIGMA machine the British obtained was a commercial (3 rotor) version which was purchased through normal channels in 1927 which, whilst it enabled the codebreakers to understand its workings, was of no use when war broke out, for the reasons outlined above."
"This was the earliest version of the machine, Enigma D, which only went into production in 1927, that featured the same basic principles as all later models (Up to Model T). (Previous models lacked a reflector which was a key improvement in its cryptographic performance)  This version( Model D) was widely used, with examples going to Sweden, the Netherlands, United Kingdom, Japan, Italy, Spain, United States, and Poland."
The German military improved the cryptographic security by introducing 4 (1928), 5, and 8(1938) rotor machines. The British were completely ignorant of the existence of the German navy's 8 rotor machine until they recovered rotors VI and VII from U-33 in February 1940."
« Last Edit: 23 March, 2012, 06:39:00 PM by antonymous »
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Offline P-Kasso2

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Re: How did Britain get hold of its' first Enigma machine?
« Reply #9 on: 23 March, 2012, 06:29:34 PM »
The Spanish were in there somewhere too in 1927...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17486464

Offline siasl

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Re: How did Britain get hold of its' first Enigma machine?
« Reply #10 on: 23 March, 2012, 06:32:02 PM »
From my earlier post:
"The very first ENIGMA machine the British obtained was a commercial (3 rotor) version which was purchased through normal channels in 1927 which, whilst it enabled the codebreakers to understand its workings, was of no use when war broke out, for the reasons outlined above."
"This was the earliest version of the machine, Enigma D, which only went into production in 1927, that featured the same basic principles as all later models (Up to Model T). (Previous models lacked a reflector which was a key improvement in its cryptographic performance)  This version( Model D) was widely used, with examples going to Sweden, the Netherlands, United Kingdom, Japan, Italy, Spain, United States, and Poland."
Sorry - didn't see that update to your original answer. That's the one I was looking for.