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Author Topic: You've all seen these 'H' for Fire Hydrant signs, but what are these ones with  (Read 35267 times)

Offline P-Kasso2

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I never thought of that!! The best answer is usually the simplest. So many thanks for the heads up, Wompon...I'd completely forgotten that this long-running question was still out there and to suddenly get the definitive answer three years after it was started just shows that it's true: IA members never sleep!
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AP

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Does anyone know if the valve is directly below the slab of concrete on which it is mounted? I have one in an area which I wanted to build a wall over and thought could I just move it a meter or so out of the way and noone would notice. ;D

AP

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Also, if I wanted to move one who would I ask?

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Also, if I wanted to move one who would I ask?

It'd probably be worth you calling the Highways division of your local council first. They should either be able to answer you directly or put you straight on to the next relevant person in your region to call.

I'm guessing here, AP, and other IA members may well come in with a much better suggestion. Hope so.
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Offline siasl

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Either of Highways or the local water supplier should know - when I was applying for a water supply, I was provided a map by Thames Water marking "H" outlets, so they should be in their purview.

You may also require permission from the Highways to perform works on the public highway.

If you're just moving the "H" sign, then beware as I believe one of the numbers indicates to the emergency services how far the outlet is from the sign (it must be directly in front, I believe). Move the sign and that renders the information invalid, which could risk loss of life in an emergency.

Offline P-Kasso2

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...If you're just moving the "H" sign, then beware as I believe one of the numbers indicates to the emergency services how far the outlet is from the sign (it must be directly in front, I believe). Move the sign and that renders the information invalid, which could risk loss of life in an emergency.

You are right, Siasl. The Fire Brigade especially need to be able to rely on finding the main water outlet in a hurry. They (and the unfortunate householder) would be less than chuffed to find someone had tampered with the emergency directions.
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A stop valve is for stopping a gas, like natural gas, or water from reaching taps inside a building, whereas a sluice valve (sometimes called a gate valve) is used for just stopping water from reaching houses, like when a company like Severn Trent Water (which is who provides the water in my area) needs to repair a broken water pipe and needs to stop the water.

That's all I really know.

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From April 2011 to now, April 2015...this must be a contender for the longest running IA question ever!

Thank you for your answer Kingpin....I am still wandering down my lane and muttering Sluice Valve or Safety Valve every time I pass the SV sign.

Hope to see more of you Kingpin on IA!

« Last Edit: 20 April, 2015, 04:34:15 PM by P-Kasso2 »
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Offline Cosmos

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I'm fairly certain that SV signifies Stop Valve. The type of valve used to control the flow of water may indeed be a sluice / gate valve as opposed to a stopcock / washer valve. The marker plate which you mention probably looks something similar to that which is found on page 2 of this PDF from Sydney Water about phoning them before you start digging. I imagine some of the information will be similar to that given by your water authorities in the UK. https://www.sydneywater.com.au/web/groups/publicwebcontent/documents/document/zgrf/mdq2/~edisp/dd_046970.pdf
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Offline P-Kasso2

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OK we've had Safety Valve, and we've had Sluice Valve and now we have Stopcock Valve that is if the infamous IA net nanny robot allows words with c-o-c-k in in it (00h nasty) instead of primly gathering up its skirts an going "Oops dearie!".

I vote for Sluice Valve meself.

Am I alone on this?

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f100 stepside

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These fire H things, I am buying a house with no mains water but there is a H post just outside the gate with a small metal cover next to it. The question is can I use this for my water supply with permission of the local Water Authority?. This would save me having the road dug up and be easy to do. Anyone know if this is possible?. I did fill in the Severn Trent general new supply form but they just gave me lads of general info, not much help really!. Thanks Jonathon

Offline siasl

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Not necessarily your local authority, but Norfolk fire service say:
"It is illegal to use a fire hydrant to obtain water for purposes other than fire fighting, unless authorised by the Water Authority or other person to whom the Hydrant belongs. Unauthorised access to the hydrant pit is not allowed. Persons found to be using fire hydrants without the appropriate authorisation are liable to prosecution."
http://www.norfolkfireservice.gov.uk/nfrs/response/hydrants

You can certainly apply to your local water authority (Severn, in your case) for a water mains map, which will show you the locations of both water and sewerage in your vicinity (if any). Fire hydrants run off the public water mains, so obviously there's a pipe run there.
There are links for you here:
http://www.stwater.co.uk/developers/
I'm just finishing off building a house, so have been through the process with Thames Water - basically you ask for a map, then pay for permission to connect (to either/both of water & sewer). They then survey the area and tell you (a) how much for them to create the connection, and (b) how to connect to the sewer. Then it's up to you to accept/refuse the quote.
In terms of a water connection, I believe the usual practice is for the water authority to be responsible for making the connection and providing a pipe to a meter on the edge of your property boundary. You are then responsible for all pipework after the meter. I would be very surprised if you were allowed to do it, and I'd also be surprised if you were allowed to make your domestic connection from a hydrant. You'd certainly want all the pipes underground to prevent them from freezing.
As for costs - I don't think they are that unreasonable (I think they will probably publish guideline figures you can use, Thames Water did). I paid 1,300 for permission (350) and the physical installation of a connection to the water mains on the other side of the street, approx 8m from the edge of my boundary - half in unmade ground, half in the road. Obviously costs may vary for a variety of factors, but if the mains pipe goes across the driveway how hard can it be?

Interestingly, they didn't actually dig up to cross the road but instead did a hole on each side and sent a "mole" whizzed across under the tarmac - but use of that method may depend on your road construction.

DL

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SV = Stop Valve or Sluice or Safety they are a means to isolate flows on any given network segment.
H Numbering 1. Distance from fire hydrant 2. Size of the hydrants water main.

Toni Williams

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 Actually, SV stands for Sluice Valve; in a country lane (where we live) it's used to turn off a damaged water main leading to houses and farms up the lane.

Dave Cain

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SV is SLUICE VALVE so called because of the type of closure in the valve itself. It is not a safety valve, it is a standard filtting on water mains and gas mains.

The reason for the numbers on the plate is so the operator has a guide to the number of turns the valve will have before being fully open or closed. The second number is the distance away from the marker post (usually in feet!) at 90 degrees to the plate. Handy if the road has been resurfaced and the valve covered. Valves are used to islolate mains in case of bursts or new services, etc.

I'm a water engineer... I believe that Gas companies use the same terminology and marking on their apparatus :)